A question for any dealer tech Oppos

"If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent" (essextee) 06/27/2019 at 14:09 • Filed to: None

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Now that stop/start is becoming an increasingly common feature, are we seeing more and more early starter motor failures? Like, imagine how many cycles the starter goes through if you sit in stop and go traffic for a hour each day. Seems to me its life woul d be drastically sh ortened. Or are manufacturers beefing them up to accomodate for that?

bob and john > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 06/27/2019 at 14:21

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they are beefing them up to accomodate for that

facw > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 06/27/2019 at 14:23

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Starter motors in cars with start/ stop are generally heavier duty to cope with the more frequent use. There will of course still be failures, but I don’t think there’s reason to believe they will be more common (though replacements could well be more expensive).

whoarder is tellurium > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 06/27/2019 at 14:24

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Systems were definitely upgraded to deal with start stop. Not only the starter system but HVAC, engine cooling systems and the transmission as well.

Electronic a uxiliary transmission oil pumps, engine coolant pumps and etc. pick up the slack when auto start stop comes into action.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 06/27/2019 at 14:25

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My understanding of these systems was that most were being installed in mild hybrid vehicles and the hybrid assisting motor was the mechanism for starting. Is this not the case?

Longtime Lurker > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 06/27/2019 at 14:25

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Beefier starters, and the've  been doing it over 15 years. Not seeing any increase in replacement intervals.

CaptDale - is secretly British > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 06/27/2019 at 14:26

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Nope. As a GM, Subaru, and Hyundai dealer we don’t see any fail. Most hybrid cars actually use the alternator to start the vehicle for stop/go. Not sure if they do the same on the non hybrids. 

jimz > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 06/27/2019 at 14:46

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no, auto stop/start is in plenty of non-hybrids. 

jimz > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 06/27/2019 at 14:51

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a few things:

1) yes, starters have been “robustified” to deal with the greater duty cycle.

2) more importantly, when they’re starting the engine after an auto stop event, they don’t have to crank the engine for nearly as long to start it.

when an engine is started from a “cold” state (not temperature, but the initial start after the vehicle has been turned off) the PCM has no idea where the cylinders are in relation to each other or the camshaft(s.) So generally it has to crank the engine through at least one but typically two complete revolutions in order to determine cam/crank sync before it’ll enable the fuel injectors. On the other hand, when the engine shuts off during an auto stop/start event, the car is still fully powered, the PCM is awake, and “tracks” the cam/crank sensors as the engine comes to a stop . Then, since it knows where the crankshaft and camshaft(s) are in relation to each other, when the engine is to be restarted, the starter only has to crank it long enough for the next available cylinder to fire.

66P1800inpieces > jimz 06/27/2019 at 15:13

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Thank you for the great concise response. Double stars.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > jimz 06/27/2019 at 16:30

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To expand on this: direct injected engines can actually fire a cylinder to restart the engine, if a cylinder is properly positioned to do so.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 06/27/2019 at 16:34

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I haven’t replaced a single starter on a car with auto start/stop. Part of regular maintenance on s ome of our hybrids actually has its check how many times a starter has been operated, then replace if above a certain number. This is a value stored in the engine control unit. I don’t remember the number, but I’ve never seen one come anywhere near that number. Also see  my reply to JimZ about fuel injectors.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 06/27/2019 at 17:26

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Replacing a starter as preventative maintenance seems a bit excessive to me. Is it covered by warranty?

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 06/27/2019 at 18:20

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I believe it would be, if the car were still under warranty. But like I said, never had to do one so I don't know. The number of starts that would necessitate replacement is astronomically high. I believe that maintenance item has since been removed from newer models which leads me to believe they were mostly monitoring the system for engineering purposes.

shop-teacher > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 06/27/2019 at 19:03

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Thanks for asking this. I've been wondering this, and I learned some stuff :)

oldmxer > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 06/28/2019 at 00:37

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i heard that some hybrids use the drive motor to restart in this mode, but this also has bothered me to thin k someday all cars may be required to have this feature, in that case i will resist to my death